Exclusive interview with Imam Wahbi Sulaiman Gawuchi

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH IMAM WAHBI SULAIMAN GAWUCHI

Exclusive interview with Imam Wahbi Sulaiman Gawuchi (Vehbi Sulejman Gavoçi), great Muslim scholar from Shkodra city, Albania. Imam Wahbi Sulaiman Gawuchi is not the only Albanian Muslim scholar in the Muslim world, but there are other renown scholars such as: Sheikh Albani, Sheikh Abdul Kadr Arnaout, Sheikh Nuh, the grandfather of Sheikh Shuaib Arnaout who is still alive, etc.

Imam Wahbi Sulaiman Gawochi and Ermal Bega, Damascus 2004

Let us return to our interviewee, Sheikh Wahbi Sulaiman Gawuchi.

Dear Hajj Wahbi Sulaiman Gawuchi, you left Albania at a young age and came to Damascus (Syria); could you tell us when you and your family came here?

Bismilahir-rahmani-rahim, all praise is to Allah, Lord of the worlds, Who is One and without partners, His peace and blessings be upon His messenger Muhammad and upon all those who follow his path.

My name is Wahbi Sulaiman Gawuchi (in Alb. Vehbi Sulejman Gavoçi). We came from Albania to Syria in 1937. My father left Albania with his family and his brother and came to Syria.

What were the reasons that pushed you to come to Syria?

The main reason was that at the time King Zog undertook certain reforms that had nothing to do with Islam. He forced women to remove the face veil, equalized brother and sister in inheritance, and ordered administration workers to wear hats. Some other things he enacted against religion forced my father to leave Albania and come to Syria, or said differently, the place where Allah's last prophets emigrated.

Where did you first live in Damascus?

When we first came to Damascus we lived in the Huk-ul Saraya neighborhood, then we moved to the Diwaniya neighborhood, which is also known as the neighborhood of the Albanians. There, with the grace of God, our father built us a house, and then he also built a mosque, which is called Arnaout Mosque. In that mosque he was the imam, he studied there, and all the early Albanians who lived there learned about their religion from my father.

How did the Arabs welcome you as Albanians?

They welcomed us with the best welcome. The Albanians here can be separated into two groups: the first group are the Albanians from Kosova, who came here during the Balkan wars, when they were being killed, tortured, and expelled by the Serbs. The majority of them went to Turkey and some came to Syria. When they came here, the government proposed a piece of land called Shbele for them, a village, so they could work there. But they preferred to remain in the city, not knowing the land and the language. We came from Albania in 1937, like I mentioned earlier. Haji Nuh and the father or Shuaib Al-Arnaout, Muharram, came before us, in 1926, also from Shkodra. We are the second group to come from Shkodra to Syria. The Arabs welcomed us well and helped us when we needed help.

What is the approximate number of the Albanians who came to Syria?

I can't give an exact number on the Albanians here, because I lived outside of Syria for about 20 years. However, I believe that they are more than 10.000 people.

What was your occupation here in Damascus?

When I came to Syria in 1937 I got to know a relative of mine called Hasan Smaya and my father asked me if I wanted to go to school with him. I accepted. Then I went to Egypt where I stayed for 10 years. There I studied Arabic and Islam and I earned two college degrees, one in a secular field and one in Shariah law. I was always occupied with learning and writing books, from 1937 until now. I still read and write articles, essays and books, like young men do. I was occupied only with studying and teaching and never with politics, and during 1948-1980 I taught in Syria. Then I went to Medina and stayed for a few years. Then I went to the UAE where I stayed for 14 years. In the year 2000 I returned to Syria, my country, to live here for as long as I have left.

When did you finish your studies?

I finished my studies in Cairo in 1947.

What activities did you undertake regarding the Albanians when you returned from Egypt?

When we returned from Egypt we thought about gathering all Albanians who lived in Syria. For this reason we formed a non-profit organization, but that didn't last for more than 3 years. I was the secretary general of this organization. I gave interviews in different newspapers; and also one time when they came and spoke bad things about Ahmad Zogu (King of Albanians) that he is sold out and that we are sold out too. We tried to stay close and help out compatriots. But some people with Albanian origin do not have the same feelings as we do, they were born and remained in Syria, until the government closed that organization and we remained separated, each in his country.

Do you ever think about returning to Albania with your family?

I have been to Albania each year but I don't think that I will return there for good, because our families and work are here, and it would be very difficult. Emigration to this country is thewab, and here we are close to our fathers, may they rest in peace, who left Albania to preserve their faith.

What is your greeting for your compatriots in Albania?

When I first went to Kosova, they welcomed me very well and I felt obligated to write a book in Albanian called "How and Why?" to thank them. The love for my country is in my blood, it's in my life; I was born there, my relatives, friends, and brothers are there. I always think about Albania, but now that I am old it is difficult for me to return. If God would make me a young man again, I would return.

Interviewed by: Ermal BEGA

Damascus, Syria 2004

Translated from Albanian to English by:

Armir TARAJ

The Albanians (Arnaouts) of Syria

THE ALBANIANS (ARNAOUTS) OF SYRIA

Interview with Ermal Bega, Executive Director of ACFOS-Albania

(Albanian Center for Oriental Studies)

Full interview (published in some Albanian websites with reduction)

Ermal Bega

Question 1: What’s your name, where do you live, and what do you do?

Answer 1: My name is Ermal Bega from Tirana, and I am the Executive Director of ACFOS-Albania and the editor-in-chief of the scientific and cultural magazine for oriental studies “URA”, published by ACFOS.

Question 2: How long have you lived in Syria and where (what was your occupation there)?

Answer 2: I was in Syria twice within a year and I lived there for about one year all together, October 2003 - October 2004. I lived in Damascus, but I had the opportunity to visit a great part of Syria. During my stay there I was attending an Arabic language course, since I had studied for oriental studies and this language was one of my requirements, but at the same time I obtained a certificate of the Italian language from a private course there, using my evening time after my Arabic studies. I also visited many places, people, cultural institutions, castles, monuments, bazaars, mosques, old and new neighborhoods of Damascus and Syria, where every place you visited had much history and livelihood.

Question 3: What impression do you have from life over there? How about the Syrian people?

Answer 3: The time I spent in Damascus and Syria is the best time of my life, the happiest year of my life so far. The place itself, with a very long history (let’s not forget to mention that Damascus is known as the oldest city in the world), with a mix of historical influences, with a wonderful and peaceful mix of religions, ethnicities, cultures, and languages, gave me the impression that I was living among many civilizations in one place. A city blessed by Allah, Lord of the worlds, and prophet Muhammad a.s..

I can say the same words about the Syrian people. I was lucky, also because of my curiosity and desire to see many places and meet many people, to make many friends in Damascus and Syria. To this day I still remember almost every person I met there and with many of them I keep in touch. I had and still have a deep respect and longing for the inhabitants of Syria, especially the friends I met most often, be they Arabs, Kurds, Albanians (Arnaouts) etc.

Question 4: Did you get a chance to meet many Albanians there? How about the old generation Albanians (Arnaouts)? Is there a proper Albanian community in Syria?

Answer 4: For the Albanians of Syria, who are known as Arnaouts, a name many use as a family name, I can proudly say that I am one of the only Albanians from Tirana and Albania that have contributed the most in the last times to promote them and to make them known in different ways, through interviews, conversations, articles etc.

When I was living there, I had the occasion to meet many of the old Albanian personalities that live in Damascus. Here I can mention the great Albanian Muslim scholar Abdulkadr Arnaout, on whose life and works our center published a book in 2009. Then I met Imam Wahbi Sulaiman Gavoçi, whom I interviewed in 2004, then Dr. Abdulatif Arnaout, Dr. Muhammad Mufaku-Arnaout, Shawkat (Shefqet) Gavoçi (who was the first teacher of the Albanian language for Albanians there) etc.

In Damascus there used to be a well developed community of Albanians. From what prof. Shawkat (Shefqet) Gavoçi told me, the Albanians of Damascus and Syria used to be closer to one another, be it physically as neighbors, and also in the preservation of Albanian tradition, culture, and language.

In Damascus there are distinct neighborhoods of Albanians (Arnaouts) which exist since the beginning of the 20^th century. Here I can mention the Diwaniya neighborhood, which has been known as the Albanian Neighborhood since early on, where you can find the Arnaout Mosque, built by Sulaiman Gavoci from Shkodra. The Albanians there have become well integrated with the local population and have been well received. They have also done well in representing themselves in different areas of society, such as culture, religion, literature, economics, politics, the military etc., where many Albanian names have achieved the very top of success.

A small street in one of the old neighborhoods of Damascus, Rukn ad-din, bears the name of an Albanian who lived and died there, Haitham al-Arnaout.

It is a sad truth that the Albanian government has not contributed anything for the Albanians there either in the cultural or national aspect. There are very few writings about the Albanians who live in generally in the Orient, from Turkey to Tunisia, and especially Syria (or the Sham region.)

We should mention that the magazine for cultural-scientific oriental studies “Ura” in Tirana, dedicated its 5^th issue in 2010 exclusively to these Albanians, the Arnaouts.

The Albanians can be found in considerable numbers in the largest cities of Syria such as Damascus, Aleppo, Hama, Homs, Suwayda, Lattakia etc.

Meanwhile, from the newer Albanians in Damascus I have known a large number of them from different regions of Albania, as well as Kosova and Macedonia, who, like me, were there to attend studies.

Question 5: What do you think about the present situation in Syria? Do you think that the Asad regime will fall? How long can this crisis go on?

Answer 5: I am very troubled by the present situation in Syria. I think that the people of Syria has suffered a great deal after the colonization of the beginning of the 20^th century, with the brutal communist dictatorship, supported mainly by Russia, to oppress a large mass of people of different religion, ethnicity, or political views, for the sole purpose to preserve the political and military power of its leaders.

I am following the latest developments with anger and longing, with tears in my eyes and pain in my heart.

The Asad family regime, taken over unjustly from the beginning, with initial support from France, as the former colonial power of Syria (from which they have almost entirely copied and installed the political and education system), is ruling Syria for a very long time of about 40 years.

During my stay in Syria in 2004, I was very reserved in speaking out because it was a socialist country and you couldn’t speak everything you were thinking. I met old Arabs and Albanians who told me about the difficulties they were going thru, especially in the political aspect. There were people who felt discriminated by the government because they didn’t accept the ruling elite, and some of them would speak openly and angrily against the regime.

Syria, from the time Hafiz al-Asad took power and throughout his rule, has waged a brutal campaign against the ruling party’s adversaries, and I believe that many Syrian people, not just now that the “Arab spring” is passing thru, but throughout this rule have suffered in many ways, and now their suffering is visible for the entire world.

Such a regime that oppresses its own people for religious, political, or ethnic reasons is not acceptable for a place like Syria with such an ancient culture and civilization. Unfortunately, if this regime continues to stay in power, but which I feel will collapse soon, Syria could suffer great losses. I believe that this crisis, if we can call it thus, will come to an end very soon, and I believe that with God’s help, a people that believes in its strength and ability will triumph, and I hope that a new and better generation will lead Syria with justice.

Syria really deserves to be in peace with its people and other nations in the Middle East, as well as the world.

Question 6: In the Western media we often hear that the Alawi and Christian minorities in Syria fear a coming to power of the Sunni majority because then minorities might be persecuted. Do you think that such a fear is justifiable?

Answer 6: Wherever Muslims ruled throughout history, we can say that based on historical facts and arguments they always brought peace. From this aspect Christian minorities in Syria and elsewhere in the Islamic world have always lived in peace with the Islamic state.

The Alawi minority (which has the power in Syria), with some support from Iran, I think fears the coming to power of a Sunni-based government, which is the majority of the people. I personally believe that the majority should always rule over the minority, because this way the minority will also be at peace. Here I’ll draw a parallel with Albania, where even though the majority of the population is Sunni Muslim, the rulers are mostly from the Christian minority. I am not against the minorities participating in government, but only if they are able to provide justice for the majority of the population, which I don’t think is the case neither in Syria nor in Albania.

Meanwhile, as far as the Christians of Syria, they are about 23% of the population. I don’t think their fear is justifiable because history tells us otherwise, that the rights of all minorities have always been respected, and their persecution for religious reasons is not allowed in Islam.

I can also add that this type of fear that is being propagated in some Western media has existed even before, since the fall of the Ottoman Caliphate, but it never became reality.

Question 7: Do you think that between Albania and a democratic Syria in the future there could be greater economical, cultural, and diplomatic relations?

Answer 7: In Albania, since 2009, there is a Syrian consulate, which reports to the Syrian embassy in Athens, and Albania is covered by an honorary consul, the Syrian-Albanian businessman Yahia Farwati. In fact I would say that not only between Albania and a democratic Syria, but I believe that bilateral economical, cultural, and diplomatic relations should have existed for a long time now. Syria has a huge cultural treasure which should be “used”. I have seen very few interested Albanians when it comes to Syria, while I have met Syrians who are very interested in Albania and the possible relations between the two nations.

I think that the Albanian government should consider the opening of a consulate in Damascus, which can serve as a bridge for different relations with the entire region of the Middle East. This would be a particularly good occasion for the Albanians who live in Syria, Jordan, Palestine, and Lebanon, to establish stronger relations with Albania. But I think that the appointed Albanian representative to Syria should be someone who knows the country and the region well, in order to contribute the most to the relations between our two countries.

Interviewed and translated from Albanian by: Armir TARAJ

March 2012

Interview with Dr. Murad Hofmann for "URA" magazine

DR. MURAD W. HOFMANN

~ Exclusive interview for “URA” magazine ~*

Tirana-Albania

1. Our first question is: May you tell us please what is one of the main reasons, which you never mentioned before, that you accepted Islam as your religion, at a time when Islam for Europe and the West was quite not interesting and not so important? Did you start learning about Islam as an Orientalist before you accept it as your religion?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: I have never been an “Orientalist” nor did I study Islam like one. Rather than at the university I learned about Islam on the ground, i.e. as a young diplomat in Algeria. My conversion to Islam was the result of a personal quest for the divine, for truth. At the time, Islam was not yet an issue in Europe.

2. How can you describe your life in Islam in all these years as a Muslim?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: Nevertheless, Islam could not remain a private concern for me since, with the ever growing immigration of Muslims into Europe, Islam became everybody’s concern. In order to respond to the glaring need for information on Islam I became a member and co-founder of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany (ZMD) and started to give lectures, also abroad, and write books on Islam.

Dr. Murad Hofmann and Ermal Bega - Bonn, September 2011

3. The number of the Muslim people in Europe is increasing. Do you think that this is still a problem for the Germany and Europe?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: Alas, the more the number of Muslims in Europe increases, the more anti-Islamic sentiments grow. This "Islamophobia" causes many well educated Muslims to leave Europe and return to North Africa, Bosnia, and Turkey.

4. What do you think it is the best way for the Muslims in Germany and Europe, being emigrants or natives reverted to Islam, to show their Islam?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: The best way for Muslims in Europe is not to assimilate but to integrate into their environment without jeopardizing their faith. Integration should happen from below, from the grass roots level, as a prerequisite for representation at higher levels.

5. During our visit in Bonn, we had the change that you introduced to us some Turkish young people, born and raised in Germany, but active Muslim ones, and you told us that “this is the future of Germany”. Do you mean that the Muslim youth and active population in Germany and across all Europe is growing up and is taking the place of the other active religious people, which is known that the natality among Muslims societies is higher than in other communities?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: Their higher current birthrate will increase the number of Muslims in Europe - for a while. But birthrates inevitably decline with increased income levels. Nevertheless, the large number of active young Muslims in today’s Europe promises an upswing of Muslim activity in tomorrow’s Europe.

Dr. Murad Hofmann taking a look at the “URA” magazine - Bonn, September 2011

6. Nowadays, many Western people, after being in many ways in contact with Islam, are going to enter in Islam, and most of them are personalities and high level people. May you tell us please, why the Muslims themselves in Europe, mainly emigrants or natives with Islamic background, are not really active in spreading the real Islam, do they feel scared of being attacked or somehow feel ashamed of being Muslims?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: Islamophobia is more current in today’s Germany than in France and Great Britain because Germany has never been as exposed to Islam as a colonialist power. As a result, many Muslims in Germany are particularly afraid of an anti-Muslim backlash. This may make them scared but certainly not ashamed of their faith.

7. Your books have been translated in many languages in the world and two of them, 1. Islam & 2. Qur’an, have been translated also into Albanian and published this year in Tirana. Do you think that your point of view about Islam in nowadays world is a good example to invite in Islam many Europeans and Western people?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: My books are relatively successful, outside of Germany as well. They are certainly more successful than books imported from the Muslim world, particularly from India and Pakistan. One has to know a local culture intimately in order to insert Islam into it.

8. Albanian Center for Oriental Studies, in Tirana, on September 10, 2011, holds a seminar about your personality and at the same time promoted your last books, 1. Islam and 2. Qur’an, translated into Albanian, where Albanian personalities use to talk about you and your books into Albanian. Also, “URA” magazine, an organ of the center mentioned above has published about 6 of your articles in each of its issues. Now, may we have something to add about that?

Dr. Murad Hofmann: I am grateful both to the Albanian Center for Oriental Studies and "URA" magazine in Tirana for making  available to the Albanian public some of my books and articles as well as a seminar about my work. Also I should like to thank "URA" magazine for making available this interview for Albanian readers in Albania itself, Kosovo, Macedonia, and wherever Albanians live.

Thank you very much!

Interviewed by Ermal BEGA, 2011

Editor-in-Chief of “URA” magazine

ISSN 2222-8381

acfos_albania@yahoo.com, uramagazine@gmail.com

Tirana-Albania

The interview translated into Albanian language you may see it here:

http://www.albanian-orientalist.blogspot.com/2011/12/interviste-ekskluzive-me-murad-hofmann.html

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* This interview is published in the last issue (no. 7) of “URA” magazine, Autumn/Winter 2011.